You pull up to this creepy old family estate with your aunt, thinking it’s just some boring photo job before the place gets sold off. Empty hallways, dusty furniture, that old house smell that feels like it sticks to your clothes. Not sexy at all at first. Then the highway gets blocked by a wreck, phone signal dies a sad little death, and suddenly you’re stuck there for the night with your “aunt” who looks more like someone’s porn search history than a real relative. Big tits barely contained, that kind of ass that makes you forget basic manners, and this weird tension where every “innocent” touch feels like it’s about one step away from turning into a hand on your thigh. The game just leans into that slow burn, like it knows exactly how wrong this whole setup is and doesn’t give a fuck.

It’s a kinetic thing, so you’re not here sweating decisions, you’re here to watch this guy slowly lose his moral compass while ghosts, shadows, and other shit that probably shouldn’t exist keep poking holes in his sense of reality. One minute you’re walking around rooms that feel too big and too quiet, getting this cold horror vibe, and the next your aunt is bending over the wrong way and your brain is like “yeah, I’d risk the family curse for that.” The paranormal stuff isn’t just for jumpscares either. There’s this monster girl scene where the line between “I should run” and “I should fuck this” basically vanishes, and the game just smiles at you while you try to pretend you’re not into it. Humor pops up at weird times too, like the protagonist reacting to something terrifying with horny sarcasm instead of fear, and it actually works. You’ll be going from being low-key freaked out by a shadow in the doorframe to watching a blowjob with a sex toy involved and thinking “okay, priorities, sure.”

Romance here is screwed up in the best way. It’s not tender, it’s not clean, it’s two lonely people in a haunted house using each other while pretending it’s about “comfort” and “closeness.” There’s a masturbation scene where the MC thinks nobody is watching, except of course something is, and the whole voyeuristic thing just slaps harder because of how exposed he looks. The exhibitionism hits in small doses: a half-open door, someone almost walking in, maybe a ghost lurking while she rides you, that kind of “someone could see” pressure that makes everything hotter. Oral, vaginal, toys, big curves shoved in your face, the works, and it all happens in this weird mix of horror and comedy where you’re aroused, then on edge, then laughing at a stupid line. It’s messy, morally fucked, and not even pretending to be wholesome. Honestly feels less like a polished porn fantasy and more like some horny fever dream you had after binging horror movies and scrolling Pornhub at the same time.

Red Brim feels like that horny visual novel you open “just to check it out for five minutes” and suddenly you’re deep into a sandbox loop, grinding money, checking every corner of the school and city, trying to see if that milf with the tight shirt bends over again in the hallway. You play as a male student with a camera, which sounds cliché, but the game actually leans into it. A lot of scenes start very soft, just you framing shots, testing lenses, doing boring point and click stuff on the PC in your room, then the dev hits you with some filthy option like “adjust her pose” and suddenly you’re groping a teacher’s huge tits while pretending it’s part of the photoshoot. It’s that kind of game where you start innocent and end up timing your mouse clicks to catch a voyeur shot through a slightly open door, watching a girl masturbate with a toy and trying not to miss the moment she starts biting her lip. The animations are simple but horny, with that AI CG look that’s sometimes a little weird around the fingers, but when you’re watching a titfuck in POV and her big boobs are bouncing in your face, you kinda stop caring. I like how the camera theme keeps popping up: sometimes you’re forced to choose between the “safe” shot and the nasty angle, like zooming in on a milf’s huge ass while she’s bending over a desk, and it actually changes what happens next. One scene in the school darkroom had me replay it three times, just so I could see all the variants of her slowly dropping to her knees and starting oral, framed like you’re doing “art”, but we both know you’re not thinking about composition at all.

The pacing is all over the place, and that’s half the charm and half the reason I yelled at my screen. You wander the school, click around the city map, run into this mysterious woman with that big red-brim hat, think it’s going to stay classy and romantic, and five minutes later you’re watching her push a vibrator between her legs while telling you to keep taking pictures. One time I went from a quiet dialogue about photography theory straight into a POV anal scene with almost no warning, just one horny dialogue branch and boom, she’s riding your dick, big ass clapping, you barely see her face because the camera angle is focused where it counts. There’s creampie all over the place too, which is nice, like the dev really understands that moment where you’re choosing where to finish. Inside, on her face, on her tits, on her back, sometimes the game lets you decide, sometimes it teases you and forces you to fill her up during vaginal sex and then stay for the tiny animation of it dripping out later. The sandbox part can get a bit grindy, clicking through days, checking the same classrooms, hoping a new event triggers, and one NPC’s route kinda annoyed me because the dialogue repeats too much, but then out of nowhere you unlock a new scene where she’s blowing you under a table and trying not to gag when you push deeper. It’s rough in spots, clunky sometimes, but then you hit something like watching a milf take your cock in anal while she records herself on your camera, dirty talk turned up, and you forget every little complaint you had ten minutes before. Actually, I was going to mention something about the sound design but I got distracted thinking about that bathroom voyeur scene where she thinks she’s alone, pulls her panties aside, and you’re just there, silently clicking, tracking every move. Whatever. You’ll figure it out.

Rich princess with too much money and zero shame suddenly lands in this crappy, noisy neighborhood like she took the wrong Uber and decided to stay. Fancy car, tight dress, tits screaming for attention, that annoying perfect hair. She acts like everyone around is trash, walks like the street is her personal runway, but her curtains are always a little open, lights never really off, and she either has no clue about privacy or wants you to watch. You play the broke guy next door who notices everything, mostly because the building is thin as paper and her moans kind of travel through the walls. At first she’s just this blonde pain in the ass that calls the cops on loud music, then suddenly she starts talking with weird people in suits in the hallway, hiding papers, whispering on the phone at night while half naked. That is when the game quietly tells you: yeah, man, this one has secrets, go dig.

The whole thing is basically about stalking her, but in that fun pervy way where you keep telling yourself “I’m just curious” while you are literally crouched near her window watching her rub herself on those expensive silk sheets. Early on you catch her in the bathroom through a small crack, pushing her fingers deep inside, pressed against the mirror, her ass bouncing while she bites her own shoulder to not scream. It’s not some soft romance either, she plays with herself like she’s angry, like she hates needing it. Then she pretends in public she is this cold upper-class bitch, but in private she humps pillows, grinds the bed, spreads her legs wide and pulls her own tits like they did something wrong. You collect pics, clips, little pieces of info, dig around her trash, check what she hides in drawers when she thinks nobody is looking. At some point you unlock this scene where she falls asleep in this tiny silk nightgown that rides up over her ass, and the game just gives you that terrible idea, you know which one. It does not handle it politely. You get close, feel her breathing, her nipple hard against the thin cloth while she is half passed out from wine, and the options there are not nice-boy material. If that kind of stuff turns you off, this game honestly does not care and keeps going.

There is a weird mix of mystery and porn here. One moment you are zooming in on her ass while she is bent over watering plants on the balcony, the next you are checking some shady document you snapped a photo of, trying to figure out who she is screwing over for cash. She is not just some trophy with big tits, she scams people, manipulates neighbors, flirts with older guys and then blackmails them when they get handsy. Kind of hot, kind of awful. You use that against her, obviously. Catch her touching herself while whispering the name of one of those men, record it, then corner her in the stairway, whisper in her ear exactly what she was doing with those fingers, show her the proof. She looks at you like she wants to claw your face, but her thighs rub together. That tension is the best part. A few scenes later you are behind her on the couch, shoving yourself between her cheeks while she pretends to resist, whispering that she hates you, and then suddenly she is grinding back and begging you not to stop. The “investigation” part is just an excuse to get to that level of control, standing over this rich bitch who thought she was untouchable, watching her on her knees with mascara running, tits bouncing while she chokes around your cock. It’s messy, wrong, dirty in a way that would get your Pornhub recommendations completely ruined, and it leans hard into the whole voyeur, sleep stuff, blackmail, neighbor tension without apologizing for any of it. Honestly I opened it just to check a scene or two, like I do with a lot of random adult games between Telegram notifs and Twitter doomscrolling, and ended up replaying the same balcony spying moment three times just because the way her ass jiggles when she leans over that rail hits something in the brain that Chrome incognito mode was invented for.

Imagine walking into a clinic where everyone looks like they escaped from a horny Pinterest board you made at 2% battery. That is pretty much the energy of Futa Healthcare. It pretends to be all serious and medical, white coats and forms and “professional standards”, but two clicks later you’re watching a stacked futa nurse “check your reflexes” by making you stroke her under the exam table while she keeps a straight face for the other patients. The game leans hard into that whole “this is a legitimate checkup, sir” vibe while your cock is out, her cock is out, and nobody is doing anything that would pass any kind of ethics board. Which is the point.

You play this clueless young dude walking into a special clinic for futas, and he’s trying to act like he’s there for research or whatever, but the second a tall futa doctor in a tight uniform leans over him, you can feel his halo just slide off. There is this one scene where you’re supposed to fill a “sample cup” and the doctor says she needs to “supervise” because it’s for a special study. She stands way too close, latex gloves on, then she just wraps her hand around you and starts pumping while asking boring medical questions like “Any family history of heart issues?” while your dick is pulsing in her fist. It’s so dumb and hot at the same time. And they actually animate the rhythm, not just one lazy loop. Sometimes it looks a little stiff, sometimes you get that perfect angle where your brain goes quiet and your hand just keeps clicking next without reading.

The wild part for me was how often they weaponize uniforms. Not just nurses. You’ve got a strict futa doctor with glasses who talks like she cares about your long-term health, then tells you anal pressure tests are “routine now” and pushes a lubed toy in you while you’re strapped on your side, and the MC is half complaining, half moaning. Then later there is this older futa “specialist” with thick mom energy, huge tits pressing against her coat, doing a “family screening” with a relative in the next room, and the whole incest thing is just kind of dropped like it’s normal paperwork. She closes the curtain, tells you to relax, pulls your mouth to her cock and acts like it’s therapy. I’m there thinking, ok, maybe that’s too much, and still I click through every dialog line. The teasing is constant, they make you watch them masturbate on those stupid exam chairs, they grope you while talking about blood pressure, they send you out into the hallway with a visible erection because “we need to see your reaction in public situations”, which made me laugh because it’s so fake and also great. It’s rough around the edges, faces sometimes look a bit plastic, some animations loop weird, one nurse’s hand clips through a thigh every time she gives a blowjob and it drives me insane, but then she spits on the tip and the camera angle hits, and honestly I forget everything. The futa on futa checkups, the futa on female “patient comfort sessions”, the interracial scenes with that dark-skinned nurse riding your face while stroking her own shaft, the way they keep pretending it is healthcare when it’s just a sex dungeon with forms, it all blends into this messy, horny notebook doodle of a game that feels like someone put all their kinks in one medical folder and never cleaned it up.

This one feels like it was written by someone who actually hates the main guy a little, and I mean that in a good way. You start as this tired delivery dude, running around, dropping packages, trying not to screw up, and of course he keeps screwing up. Wrong address, broken box, late order, all the usual crap. And then she shows up. Not as some magical savior or sexy boss out of nowhere, more like that woman you bump into on the street and you just know your day is going to get worse but you still look back at her ass. She clocks immediately that he’s weak in the knees, the type who’ll say “no” with his mouth and “yes” with his whole body, and she just goes, “Okay, you’re mine now,” without even needing to say it directly. The game doesn’t treat it like some huge destiny thing. It’s more like, you had bad luck, then you had worse luck, and now your bad luck has a hot, cruel smile and a quiet apartment.

What I liked is how the control starts small. She texts him while he’s still working deliveries, tells him to come over “just for a minute,” and you know that minute is not going to be a minute. You can try to act tough, try to keep your dignity, but the game loves to catch you in those in-between moments. Her making you wait on your knees in the hallway while she finishes a phone call in the other room, you staring at the floor, hearing only her voice through the door while your dick is already hard in your pants, that kind of thing. Nothing crazy happening, but you feel like a dog that trained itself. Then she starts playing with you more directly. The first time she strokes you off, it’s not this loving, porn-style handjob. She treats your cock like a toy she bought by mistake and is trying to decide if she’ll return it. Slow, lazy, almost bored, talking more about how pathetic you look than about how good you feel. She doesn’t even let you come right away, and when she finally does, she makes you watch where the cum lands like she’s grading you. It’s humiliating but also kind of funny, in a very mean way.

The pegging stuff is where the game really stops pretending she’s “nice.” She warms you up with teasing, makes you do stupid little things first, like masturbate for her while she sits there fully dressed, not touching you, only correcting your posture or telling you to moan louder because “the neighbors can’t hear properly.” By the time she actually pulls out the strap, you already betrayed yourself ten times. The scene that stuck in my head is when she pushes into you the first time and doesn’t praise you, doesn’t say you’re doing good, she just comments on how tight you are like you’re a stubborn jar she’s opening. There’s a moment where MC tries to hold some pride, tries not to make a sound, and the game lets you choose if you keep quiet or finally beg. Either way, she wins, but the flavor changes. If you beg, she smiles and rides your ass with this almost gentle cruelty, whispering how this is all you’re good for. If you stay stubborn, she gets colder, more mocking, and makes you come from it without even touching your cock. After that, every delivery job feels different, like the packages you carry are less heavy than the thought that at any moment she can text you one word and you’ll drop everything and go. The 3D models sell a lot of this just with her expression alone, the small eyebrow lifts, the little smirk when you embarrass yourself. I wish the UI didn’t hide half the lower screen during some scenes, it pissed me off more than it should, but then she’d grab the protagonist by the hair again and I forgot what I was complaining about. There’s a weird warmth too, like she’s not a cartoon villain, more like that strict mentor you really shouldn’t jerk off thinking about, while you’re literally jerking off because of her.

Forbidden Thoughts starts in that boring slice of life zone where nothing really happens, which is exactly why it hits so hard when things start to slip. You’re just this regular guy, bit awkward, still a virgin, walking around the house and the neighborhood, pretending everything is normal while your brain is quietly getting filthier every day. It begins with these small scenes: brushing past her in the hallway and feeling the weight of her tits against your arm for half a second, or trying not to stare when she bends over the couch and that huge ass fills the whole screen. She talks about groceries or work or something totally harmless, and you’re there, only catching half the words because your eyes are stuck on how her top is just a little too tight. The game really likes those slow burns, the groping that isn’t fully “on purpose” yet clearly not an accident, the way your hand lingers when you pass her the remote, the tension when your fingers touch and nobody pulls away fast enough. It’s horny, but it tries to pretend it isn’t, and that part is honestly hotter than most “let’s fuck now” games.

What I enjoyed the most is how much it trusts you to read the looks and the pauses instead of shouting everything in your face. There’s this scene on the balcony at night, she’s in this simple top with no bra, nipples showing through in the cold air, talking about how “people misjudge her” and all you can think is how badly you want to put your hands on those big tits and see just how soft they are. The dialogue keeps circling around safe topics, but the camera and the choices are anything but safe. You can stare at her chest, or pretend to be respectful, or go for a “casual” touch on her lower back that obviously dips too low. Sometimes she catches you looking and you get that tiny smirk, like she knows exactly what you’re doing and lets you drown in your own dirty thoughts. Sometimes she reacts colder and you feel like a creep, which I kind of liked because it makes the later teasing and exhibitionism feel earned, not automatic. The 3dcg models help here: her curves look heavy, like if you grab her ass it will actually fill your whole hand, not just look big from one angle. One thing that annoyed me though, her phone notification sound is weirdly loud in one early scene and now my brain associates that exact “ping” with having to hide my own hard-on. They never fix that.

The escalation is where the game really starts to twist the knife. Once those “accidental” brushes turn into open teasing, it goes from romantic tension to outright sexual torture in a good way. She’ll stretch in front of you, tits bouncing, asking innocent questions while her shirt rides up and you see the bottom of her breasts, no bra anywhere, and you get choices like “help her adjust her clothes” or “pretend not to notice” when obviously both options just mean more skin, more contact, more frustration. There’s a bathroom scene where you walk in while she’s half dressed, steam on the mirror, droplets on her skin, and she doesn’t cover herself properly, just sort of turns slightly and lets you see the side of her breast and that full, thick ass. You can back out or stay, and if you stay, the game leans hard into masturbation and voyeur stuff, with you jerking off later to the memory of that exact angle, the curve of her hip, the way the towel barely covers her. It’s not just porn, it’s that feeling of “I shouldn’t be doing this” mixed with “I can’t stop” that makes the whole thing feel nasty in the best way. I wish some of the romance lines were less corny, because sometimes the MC suddenly talks like a poet and it doesn’t match his horny-idiot energy at all, but then the next scene he’s back to being nervous, trying not to cum in his pants when she sits on his lap and pretends it’s nothing. The game never fully lets you forget that you’re the inexperienced guy in over his head, staring at a milf with big tits and a bigger ass, and every choice is basically: do you stay a good boy, or do you finally give in to those forbidden thoughts you’ve been pretending not to have.

The whole thing feels like somebody watched too many late night American Pie clones, then decided to turn that horny brain fog into a sandbox game and just never stopped. You start as this guy who pretty much exists to orbit around older women with bodies that look like they were designed by a frustrated teenager with access to Blender and zero shame. Heavy tits that strain their tops, asses that fill the screen when the camera gets lazy, that kind of very honest visual style. It is not subtle. At all. You roam through the house, the neighborhood, a few side spots, poking into rooms you probably should not, checking windows you really should not, clicking on little icons like a rat hitting the pleasure button. Half the “gameplay” is you pretending you’re just exploring, while the camera clearly knows you are there to stare when some milf bends over the sink or stretches in front of the TV in tiny shorts that ride up every time she breathes.

What I liked, in a strange way, is how shameless the pacing is. One moment you are just wandering, half bored, thinking “ok, nothing is happening, maybe I close the tab and open Reddit,” then you walk in on a late-night masturbation scene in the bathroom with soft moaning and a very deliberate close-up animation that loops just a little too long, like the dev got distracted watching their own work. The animated bits are sometimes clunky, hips moving slightly off rhythm, breasts jiggling a bit like jelly instead of flesh, but that roughness has a certain charm. It feels like those old Newgrounds sex games that tried really hard to be erotic even when the movement was a bit cursed. The voyeur aspect hits the brain in that dirty way: hiding behind doors, peeking through keyholes, catching a milf “accidentally” leaving her curtains open while she fingers herself on the couch. You are not supposed to be there, and of course the game wants you there. Sometimes that tension works, sometimes it just feels like you are running in circles waiting for the correct time-of-day trigger to finally let you catch her in the shower again.

Then you get that sandbox structure on top, which is both nice and annoying. Freedom sounds cool until you are stuck doing the same dumb route across the house, clicking the same sofa, kitchen, bedroom, hoping some new big ass will present itself in a slightly different pose. When it works, though, you stumble into these small scenes that feel oddly personal. Like the milf in the tight tank top pretending to watch a movie, her nipples pressing against the fabric, and your character just sits way too close. No dialogue wall, just some short lines, a hand on her thigh, a slow pan down her body while she pretends not to notice, then the camera sneaks between her legs and you realize she was already wet, touching herself under the blanket long before you came in. Those are the moments where the voyeurism stops being just “peeking from outside” and turns into this weird power play, like you are being allowed to see something secret precisely because you are acting like you should not. There is a lot of jerking off too, obviously. The game loves masturbation as a bridge between scenes: you watch her get off in the shower, then cut to the guy in his room, pants around ankles, stroking to what he just saw, cum splashing on his belly in an animation that is both crude and effective. It is trashy, horny, a little repetitive, occasionally frustrating, and every now and then it hits that perfect sleazy rhythm where you stop caring about flaws and just lean forward, waiting for the next milf to “accidentally” leave her door unlocked.

Being a god’s plaything sounds hot until you realize the goddess is basically a horny streamer watching your life like it’s her favorite slow-burn porn series. That’s the vibe here: some immortal lifebringer chick gets bored, pokes one unlucky guy on a random modern planet, and suddenly his “I got kicked out of home, need a couch” drama turns into living in a magical porn hub disguised as a normal town. You start as this regular dude crashing at Katie’s place, pretending you’ll look for a job or be responsible or something, and then the game just quietly goes: “What if your boring life had monster girls, futa surprises, and moms who don’t know what the word ‘boundaries’ means?” It’s that kind of corruption, but slow and comfy, like when you say “only one more scene” and then realize you’re trying to get a demon girl pregnant because the goddess in the sky might clap for you.

The sandbox style is where it gets fun and annoying at same time. You just click around the city, different places, different times, poking events until something sexy explodes. One moment you’re doing a casual handjob scene in a cramped bathroom, staring at the cheap tiles more than her face, next moment you unlock a full-on multiple penetration fantasy that looks like some divine hentai artist took over your browser. There’s this one voyeur moment at Katie’s home that really hit us: MC peeking through a door crack, thinking he’s being sneaky, watching her masturbate with a toy she swore she “never uses,” and then the camera angle shifts so you see the goddess watching that same scene like she’s on her couch with popcorn. It’s twisted but in a funny way, like someone added a horny Twitch chat to your porn. The 3D-style characters actually look like people who sweat, jiggle, and get embarrassed when you catch them half naked. Or naked. Or on the sidewalk pretending they’re not doing exhibitionism at all. We had one futa encounter that went from romantic “let me hold you” to “okay that cock is actually bigger than mine, excuse me?” so fast it felt like a jump scare, in a good way. The pregnancy and transformation stuff sneaks up too: early on it’s just teasing, later you’re handling body swaps and milfy bellies and trying to remember who had which tits before magic happened. We kept complaining that the footjob stuff always triggers in the ugliest room of the house and never in the nice locations, and yeah, it still bothers us for some reason. But then you get a scene where the MC takes control, goes full male dom on a monster girl who was teasing him all week, and she ends up on her knees, drooling on his shaft while traffic passes outside the window and the goddess zooms in like “yup, archive that.” The pacing is weird, the romance moments are accidentally sweet then immediately ruined by anal, and half the time you’re just grinding time slots on your phone like it’s Candy Crush with tits, but the world slowly fills with lovers, pets, dommes, swinging couples, and that feeling that your whole harem is basically a cosmic toy box for a bored divine pervert watching from above and hoping you fuck up in the hottest possible way.

The game drops you into this little romantic test lab where everything is shiny and wet at the same time, and for some reason that combo actually works. You’re a guy orbiting around this girl who looks like she’s been sculpted in a high-end porn studio, but the story keeps trying to pretend she’s just “a friend” or “someone important” or whatever. It feels like standing in a slow elevator with your crush while both of you pretend you’re staring at the floor number. Except here, the floor number has tits and a tongue and the camera really likes close-ups. It’s a kinetic thing, so you’re not doing the usual choice spam, you’re more like watching your own bad decisions play out in 3D. And because you can’t change anything, every time the guy hesitates before kissing her you kinda want to grab him by the neck and slam his face into hers. In a loving way. Mostly.

Sex-wise, the game goes straight for that “we know each other too well to be doing this, but we’re doing this anyway” vibe. Handjob in a place you really shouldn’t be getting one, like the camera is practically winking at you: yeah, someone could walk in, keep stroking. That whole exhibition angle is not over the top, just this light thrill, like when you’re sexting while sitting in a Zoom call and praying you don’t screen-share the wrong window. Then there’s the lesbian stuff which sneaks up on you, because one second the girl is “just curious” and five seconds later there’s tongue and moaning and someone’s fingers glistening under soft lighting. You’re stuck as the male protagonist watching two women get each other worked up and then somehow you’re allowed in, which is very generous of the universe. Oral, vaginal, hands, the usual porn logic progression, except the pacing is slower than I expected in a good way until suddenly it isn’t and scenes just cut a bit too fast like the game is shy about its own money shots. I kept wanting one more camera angle when she’s riding, just a tiny tilt, but no, it snaps away, like a cocktease editor got hired off TikTok.

Romance keeps trying to act like the main tag here, and it half wins. Some of the quiet moments are weirdly tender, like when she’s masturbating and you’re not even touching her, just watching, and the focus is on her face instead of her pussy for a few seconds longer than usual. That made me pause Spotify and just stare. Then two lines later she says something that sounds like a bad translation from a dating sim and I’m yanked right out again. The 3D models do a lot of heavy lifting; skin looks warm, tongues wet, nipples reacting to touch in a way that made me rewind a scene in VLC out of habit, even though it’s not a video file. And yeah, it’s obviously a proof of concept, you can feel the edges where the dev just went “eh, next build,” like that one shot where her handjob animation doesn’t match the thrust speed at all and my brain started calculating optimal stroke timing instead of enjoying the scene. I’m that freak who paused to think how many branching flags this would need if it wasn’t kinetic, and then immediately got distracted again when she sank down on him slowly, the camera hugging that angle where you see her back muscles and the way her ass hits his thighs. It’s kind of like watching someone test a love triangle strategy while only giving you one path: you can see all the temptations, the jealousy hooks, the exhibition curve, the lesbian route that could explode later, but here it’s all locked into this one horny, awkward, strangely sweet timeline that you just ride along with, whether you’d play it the same way or not.